Clearly humans care a lot about neurogenesis not just because understanding whether it happens in humans would be a stepping stone to building a robust model of how cognition happens, but also because intuitively it has to do with whether we can enhance our own mental abilities in our lifetime-- one of the most fervent desires of many, I'm sure.
We've already had to write off things like growth mindset as a way to increase our fluid intelligence, it seems. It is dismaying that, based on this study, we'll have to write off things like exercise as well which we now realize only work in rats. What's left that could plausibly help? Perhaps just: building better work and study habits and simply spending more time on mental tasks. At least we're pretty sure those aren't illusory.
Whether adult human neurogenesis happens doesn't indicate whether exercise (or growth mindset, or diet, or whatever else) isn't effective; there are plenty of other modes of neuroplasticity that could be modulated by such things. Similar to how the article noted that, despite claims that antidepressants worked via promoting neurogenesis, they still work even in the face of evidence against neurogenesis happening at all.
Even if human neurogenesis turns out to be a complete fable, the implications for actual humans trying to boost their intelligence is minimal. IQ correlates with brain size only modestly, and typical variations in brain size are (I haven't done the math, but I feel fairly confident) an order of magnitude greater than what anyone has claimed adult neurogenesis could produce; simply adding more neurons wasn't going to get you where you wanted to go, regardless. But that's not the only game in town- there are many ways the brain changes itself.
(As it happens, thousands of hopeful nootropic-poppers and brain-trainers haven't been terribly successful at boosting their IQ yet. But it remains a possibility.)
They are not illusory, but I think people run into problems finding a structure or deeper meaning that cements those good habits into their daily life. They just become more “to do” items on our daily growing list of shit to do.
What is illusory, is that something outside of human perception will “fix” a perception problem. Something like repetitive exertion, like exercising... that is not a solution if there is a core perception problem in that person’s lens. As long as a “fix” or “solution” is being sought, it will always be temporary unless it opens up something in the person that allows them to see the original issue. But most often that stuff is used like a multivitamin, and people forget the significance of the fragile foundations they’re laying down as stuff to make the “rest of their life” possible. And they just move their attention to something else, something like watching Netflix instead of thinking about why they have such a hard time getting up to exercise in the first place.
It's a fascination problem. Everything falls into place when what genuinely deeply interests you coincides with your work, with the source of your motivation to work, and with the source of your mental fitness to do the work. When I think of long-lived scientists, mathematicians, composers, artists who produce brilliant work into old age, these are people who never lose fascination for what they do.
Agreed. Something significant is getting missed somewhere in the pipeline. But still, all of those brilliant people found something inside themselves to drive them. None are/were dependent on society beyond the knowledge that got them to the point where they broke away from the herd and pushed us further, and that's what makes them special.
And yet I think most of them miss something significant as well. It's pretty painful to read Feynman's thoughts on poetry, for example, but following his natural curiosity led him to a place that satisfied all/most of his psychological needs.
Huh? Growth mindset has been validated. For small interventions, the effect is not large, but it IS replicable. If even just a couple of 25 minute pep talks show a statistically measurable effect (even if it is small), then that is important when scaled up.
Constant exposure to novelty. The brain is an adaptive organ and subjecting it to repetition and normalcy actively prevents any adaptation from taking place. Living in the same place, doing the same thing, experiencing the same things, being with the same people, never having intense new experiences provide markedly fewer novel stimuli which are what fundamentally drive all brain development.
The desire to sit still in the same room for decades on end, experiencing nothing interesting or pleasurable or intense, is a desire for a brain that stops its functioning.
I recommend practicing memory palace techniques if you really want a brain work out. Storing sets of information, retrieving them, and replacing them is intensely exhausting. You know you're getting a brain work out. I try and memorize one deck of cards every day at a minimum. After a bit of practice, you'll have laser focus. Not so sure about whether this promotes neurogenesis though. Does anybody have any resources on this?
I don’t, but please tell us more about the spillover effects based on your subjective experience. This sounds like something I would try but I’d like to hear more.
Prime factoring of license plate numbers before the car exits or otherwise gets out of view. Good way to exercise brain... and get in a wreck. (You'll grow to hate those occasional plates from states with 5 digit numbers.)
Comments
Clearly humans care a lot about neurogenesis not just because understanding whether it happens in humans would be a stepping stone to building a robust model of how cognition happens, but also because intuitively it has to do with whether we can enhance our own mental abilities in our lifetime-- one of the most fervent desires of many, I'm sure.
We've already had to write off things like growth mindset as a way to increase our fluid intelligence, it seems. It is dismaying that, based on this study, we'll have to write off things like exercise as well which we now realize only work in rats. What's left that could plausibly help? Perhaps just: building better work and study habits and simply spending more time on mental tasks. At least we're pretty sure those aren't illusory.
Whether adult human neurogenesis happens doesn't indicate whether exercise (or growth mindset, or diet, or whatever else) isn't effective; there are plenty of other modes of neuroplasticity that could be modulated by such things. Similar to how the article noted that, despite claims that antidepressants worked via promoting neurogenesis, they still work even in the face of evidence against neurogenesis happening at all.
Even if human neurogenesis turns out to be a complete fable, the implications for actual humans trying to boost their intelligence is minimal. IQ correlates with brain size only modestly, and typical variations in brain size are (I haven't done the math, but I feel fairly confident) an order of magnitude greater than what anyone has claimed adult neurogenesis could produce; simply adding more neurons wasn't going to get you where you wanted to go, regardless. But that's not the only game in town- there are many ways the brain changes itself.
(As it happens, thousands of hopeful nootropic-poppers and brain-trainers haven't been terribly successful at boosting their IQ yet. But it remains a possibility.)
They are not illusory, but I think people run into problems finding a structure or deeper meaning that cements those good habits into their daily life. They just become more “to do” items on our daily growing list of shit to do.
What is illusory, is that something outside of human perception will “fix” a perception problem. Something like repetitive exertion, like exercising... that is not a solution if there is a core perception problem in that person’s lens. As long as a “fix” or “solution” is being sought, it will always be temporary unless it opens up something in the person that allows them to see the original issue. But most often that stuff is used like a multivitamin, and people forget the significance of the fragile foundations they’re laying down as stuff to make the “rest of their life” possible. And they just move their attention to something else, something like watching Netflix instead of thinking about why they have such a hard time getting up to exercise in the first place.
It’s a spiritual problem.
It's a fascination problem. Everything falls into place when what genuinely deeply interests you coincides with your work, with the source of your motivation to work, and with the source of your mental fitness to do the work. When I think of long-lived scientists, mathematicians, composers, artists who produce brilliant work into old age, these are people who never lose fascination for what they do.
Agreed. Something significant is getting missed somewhere in the pipeline. But still, all of those brilliant people found something inside themselves to drive them. None are/were dependent on society beyond the knowledge that got them to the point where they broke away from the herd and pushed us further, and that's what makes them special.
And yet I think most of them miss something significant as well. It's pretty painful to read Feynman's thoughts on poetry, for example, but following his natural curiosity led him to a place that satisfied all/most of his psychological needs.
Huh? Growth mindset has been validated. For small interventions, the effect is not large, but it IS replicable. If even just a couple of 25 minute pep talks show a statistically measurable effect (even if it is small), then that is important when scaled up.
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/03/gro...
Here's[0] what the literature on growth mindset interventions looks like, taken from the Sisk et al. meta analysis.
[0] https://image.ibb.co/kn4ePx/image.png
So... looks like it's a small but replicable effect.
Constant exposure to novelty. The brain is an adaptive organ and subjecting it to repetition and normalcy actively prevents any adaptation from taking place. Living in the same place, doing the same thing, experiencing the same things, being with the same people, never having intense new experiences provide markedly fewer novel stimuli which are what fundamentally drive all brain development.
The desire to sit still in the same room for decades on end, experiencing nothing interesting or pleasurable or intense, is a desire for a brain that stops its functioning.
I recommend practicing memory palace techniques if you really want a brain work out. Storing sets of information, retrieving them, and replacing them is intensely exhausting. You know you're getting a brain work out. I try and memorize one deck of cards every day at a minimum. After a bit of practice, you'll have laser focus. Not so sure about whether this promotes neurogenesis though. Does anybody have any resources on this?
I don’t, but please tell us more about the spillover effects based on your subjective experience. This sounds like something I would try but I’d like to hear more.
Prime factoring of license plate numbers before the car exits or otherwise gets out of view. Good way to exercise brain... and get in a wreck. (You'll grow to hate those occasional plates from states with 5 digit numbers.)