But for a pet project I also bought a cheap sub-80 euros clone off of alibaba (found the same on amazon.fr a few euros more expensive), and I have to say the quality of it was good enough for most usage I actually have, and it came with equipment to attach it, take it underwater, ...
To the point I realized, if I had neither now for my need that cheap one with a good sd card would be enough.
There is obviously a place for GoPro as a brand but given how the bazillion smartphone camera optics produced every years helped improve the field immensely in price/quality, their attempt to capture the market while having decent margins was doomed. Most people will prefer "good enough, third of the price".
I've got a Hero2 or Hero3, I think. I just don't know why I'd replace it. I mean, I wouldn't mind 4k video, I suppose (assuming mine can't do it, I really don't know). But it's a toy I rarely use, and I can't fathom why they needed Hero3/Hero4/Hero5/Hero6 Silver/Black/etc editions. I know the Sessions are smaller, but even after consulting charts on the matter, I'm confused about which one would be the best replacement for what I have -- and, again, a purchase I probably wouldn't repeat for another 8 years or so.
Those cheap chinese knock offs are made with cheap components and I have no doubts that the factory conditions are terrible. I wouldn't be suprised if the supply chain for these cheap cameras will be shutdown with China finally being serious about pollution.
Those cheap chinese knock offs are made with cheap components
I would have to dig deep into my prior comments to find the source, but it was in response to my comment that GoPros don't seem to be a better user experience than the "cheap Chinese knock-offs" (direct quote). Then someone came along with a link pointing out that a GoPro is the cheap Chinese knock-off. They just silk screen their name on it.
In some cases, I’ve gotten products off AliExpress that were made far more robustly internally than the name-brand product they were imitating (not direct knockoffs pretending to be authentic, just obvious imitations).
The economics of buying from AliExpress/Alibaba can work out slightly differently than buying from a Western company that’s sourcing from China. Cutting out the middleman allows them to sell it at a price that I find cheap while they’re still able to capture far more profit than from a wholesale purchase. Potentially improving conditions vs if you bought the non-knock off.
Not to say that happens in every case. Nor as a broad comment on the conditions of factory work in China. But food for thought on the benefit of buying directly from Chinese companies.
I don't disagree about the conditions, but if that doesn't stop people from buying their 15 bucks t-shirt or their overpriced Nike, it's not going to stop them with their cameras
True, but I still bring it up because it's a conversation worth having. And if one more person starts to realize the harm in buying cheap goods from China, hopefully we will eventually change this trend. I for one try to only buy goods that are made locally to me. Sure, it will cost more but I look at it as an investment.
>And if one more person starts to realize the harm in buying cheap goods from China, hopefully we will eventually change this trend.
Textiles and clothing are already starting to be made in India, Bangladesh, and Vietnam because Chinese factories are too expensive for simple manufacturing. Globalism ensures that "harm" will be exported from rich countries to the poor ones. The economic incentives are extremely powerful, and a handful of well-meaning people won't fix that.
What happened in China - and is currently happening - is that their industrial revolution occurred and they are now making increasingly better products with an increasingly more educated and skilled workforce, no different than what happened in the United States. As prices of labor and factories go up, the low-hanging fruit is exported elsewhere.
Check your - or your friend's, since you try not to buy clothing like this - Nike shirts and see where they are made. Anything new is likely not to be made in China.
Very well could be. But it's certain that any cheaply made item is going to have poor working conditions, poor quality of life, and poor return on investment. I think we need to define what I mean by "expensive" because, for example, an iPhone can be thought of as expensive purchase but I honestly think it is too cheap. What I mean is that we need to evaluate the total cost of ownership. "Is this item that I'm buying made in a way that benefits humanity?"
For example, the LED light bulb market had such promise but now is flooded with cheaply made bulbs that are made with components that will fail before they should. The pollution cost to mine all the rare earth materials that go into these light bulbs are not reflected in their final cost, and in my opinion, they should be.
"Those cheap chinese knockoffs" are the same parts as the GoPro, made in the same factories. Just buy the cameras and compare them and you'll see this is obvious.
As for your prediction of shutdowns and seriousness of pollution, well, that remains to be seen. As someone who does import/export of goods in Chinese factories... I have my doubts.
I have the Eken H9 Action Cam. 46$ on AliExpress. Works just fine, battery lasts for about an hour and 20 min on a full charge at room temperature. I believe the GoPro lens has better distorsion correction and image stabilization for 7x the price, but otherwise the Chinese camera is good. It splits the recordings into 30 min files. I use it as a dash cam and to record Kendo training sessions from a fixed point.
There's a video review of this camera and other cheap cams on Youtube by a user named redskull.
Many are rebrands of SJCAM models (I think at least). I call them "GoFaux" or "FauxPro" :-)
A year or two ago I got a 1080p one from Hobbyking for about £40 and used it when snorkelling (the waterproof case came for free). It has been great and my only complaint are the buttons on the waterproof case are a bit stiff to press. Video quality is excellent. I dont have a GoPro to compare it against, but from what I've seen on YouTube et al, it certainly seems competitive (sorry I dont have any clips online).
There are many, many, many on amazon - prices vary a lot though so with 10 minutes you can usually filter out the optimistically priced items and find the sensible zone. I'd not expect to pay more than about £50 for a 4K + Wifi one
Comments
I have a GoPro, and I love it.
But for a pet project I also bought a cheap sub-80 euros clone off of alibaba (found the same on amazon.fr a few euros more expensive), and I have to say the quality of it was good enough for most usage I actually have, and it came with equipment to attach it, take it underwater, ... To the point I realized, if I had neither now for my need that cheap one with a good sd card would be enough.
There is obviously a place for GoPro as a brand but given how the bazillion smartphone camera optics produced every years helped improve the field immensely in price/quality, their attempt to capture the market while having decent margins was doomed. Most people will prefer "good enough, third of the price".
At least that's how I view it.
I've got a Hero2 or Hero3, I think. I just don't know why I'd replace it. I mean, I wouldn't mind 4k video, I suppose (assuming mine can't do it, I really don't know). But it's a toy I rarely use, and I can't fathom why they needed Hero3/Hero4/Hero5/Hero6 Silver/Black/etc editions. I know the Sessions are smaller, but even after consulting charts on the matter, I'm confused about which one would be the best replacement for what I have -- and, again, a purchase I probably wouldn't repeat for another 8 years or so.
Those cheap chinese knock offs are made with cheap components and I have no doubts that the factory conditions are terrible. I wouldn't be suprised if the supply chain for these cheap cameras will be shutdown with China finally being serious about pollution.
Those cheap chinese knock offs are made with cheap components
I would have to dig deep into my prior comments to find the source, but it was in response to my comment that GoPros don't seem to be a better user experience than the "cheap Chinese knock-offs" (direct quote). Then someone came along with a link pointing out that a GoPro is the cheap Chinese knock-off. They just silk screen their name on it.
EDIT: Found the original, no link, but should be easy to confirm: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12869304 Thanks, DDG!
In some cases, I’ve gotten products off AliExpress that were made far more robustly internally than the name-brand product they were imitating (not direct knockoffs pretending to be authentic, just obvious imitations).
The economics of buying from AliExpress/Alibaba can work out slightly differently than buying from a Western company that’s sourcing from China. Cutting out the middleman allows them to sell it at a price that I find cheap while they’re still able to capture far more profit than from a wholesale purchase. Potentially improving conditions vs if you bought the non-knock off.
Not to say that happens in every case. Nor as a broad comment on the conditions of factory work in China. But food for thought on the benefit of buying directly from Chinese companies.
What happens when there is no upside for the original creators/designers/inventors? Who designs the next best thing?
I don't disagree about the conditions, but if that doesn't stop people from buying their 15 bucks t-shirt or their overpriced Nike, it's not going to stop them with their cameras
True, but I still bring it up because it's a conversation worth having. And if one more person starts to realize the harm in buying cheap goods from China, hopefully we will eventually change this trend. I for one try to only buy goods that are made locally to me. Sure, it will cost more but I look at it as an investment.
Textiles and clothing are already starting to be made in India, Bangladesh, and Vietnam because Chinese factories are too expensive for simple manufacturing. Globalism ensures that "harm" will be exported from rich countries to the poor ones. The economic incentives are extremely powerful, and a handful of well-meaning people won't fix that.
What happened in China - and is currently happening - is that their industrial revolution occurred and they are now making increasingly better products with an increasingly more educated and skilled workforce, no different than what happened in the United States. As prices of labor and factories go up, the low-hanging fruit is exported elsewhere.
Check your - or your friend's, since you try not to buy clothing like this - Nike shirts and see where they are made. Anything new is likely not to be made in China.
The cycle continues.
But that's true for expensive cameras too.
Very well could be. But it's certain that any cheaply made item is going to have poor working conditions, poor quality of life, and poor return on investment. I think we need to define what I mean by "expensive" because, for example, an iPhone can be thought of as expensive purchase but I honestly think it is too cheap. What I mean is that we need to evaluate the total cost of ownership. "Is this item that I'm buying made in a way that benefits humanity?"
For example, the LED light bulb market had such promise but now is flooded with cheaply made bulbs that are made with components that will fail before they should. The pollution cost to mine all the rare earth materials that go into these light bulbs are not reflected in their final cost, and in my opinion, they should be.
"Those cheap chinese knockoffs" are the same parts as the GoPro, made in the same factories. Just buy the cameras and compare them and you'll see this is obvious.
As for your prediction of shutdowns and seriousness of pollution, well, that remains to be seen. As someone who does import/export of goods in Chinese factories... I have my doubts.
Do you have a link/make-model for the alibaba alternative?
I have the Eken H9 Action Cam. 46$ on AliExpress. Works just fine, battery lasts for about an hour and 20 min on a full charge at room temperature. I believe the GoPro lens has better distorsion correction and image stabilization for 7x the price, but otherwise the Chinese camera is good. It splits the recordings into 30 min files. I use it as a dash cam and to record Kendo training sessions from a fixed point.
There's a video review of this camera and other cheap cams on Youtube by a user named redskull.
Many are rebrands of SJCAM models (I think at least). I call them "GoFaux" or "FauxPro" :-)
A year or two ago I got a 1080p one from Hobbyking for about £40 and used it when snorkelling (the waterproof case came for free). It has been great and my only complaint are the buttons on the waterproof case are a bit stiff to press. Video quality is excellent. I dont have a GoPro to compare it against, but from what I've seen on YouTube et al, it certainly seems competitive (sorry I dont have any clips online).
There are many, many, many on amazon - prices vary a lot though so with 10 minutes you can usually filter out the optimistically priced items and find the sensible zone. I'd not expect to pay more than about £50 for a 4K + Wifi one
Tried searching by name and can't find the one I bought specifically but there seems to be even more clones than before in the 30-60 range (euros)