Everyone kicks down. I've seen drivers treat cyclists like shit, and seen cyclists treat pedestrians like shit. In my hometown there have been a couple of deaths of pedestrians because cyclists are too busy being macho on their morning commute. As a pedestrian, I've been buzzed and verbally abused by cyclists riding where they're not supposed to.
Yes, the cars:cyclists thing is more dangerous to life and limb, but cyclists:pedestrians has the same proportion of arseholes. I'm not sure who pedestrians 'kick down' to, but no doubt they'd be the same if they do.
My city had 47 pedestrians killed by cars in 2016, and back in 2010 we had the first and last known pedstrian-cyclist collision fatality, it was an 80 year old man.
How many cars do you have driving and how many bicycles? If the number of cars is greater than 47x the number of bikes, might completely flip that outcome.
I just read the article about statistics errors including base rate fallacy on HN today, worth a read:
Another caveat would be how many are sharing the same space. In a lot of places cyclist and pedestrians are sharing a footpath or some sort of shared cycle path. There aren't nearly as many shared spaces between cars and people.
I'm not sure why the focus is so much on the death rate. To me, my comment reads more about the arsehole behaviour of various groups. I even literally state that at the start of the second paragraph. The GP is talking about drivers acting like arseholes, and I'm responding that cyclists act like arseholes too, and so would pedestrians if they had someone to 'kick down' to.
Interesting, though, that you seek to 'excuse' the death of the pedestrian in your city 'because he's old', but don't bother to note the age spread of the vehicular deaths.
I don't know where they get this statistic from. Is it provable? In Sweden they separate cars and bikes and there are much fewer accidents as a result. I heard a cyclist had thrown their bike at a horse because they felt the track was 'bikes-only' (it wasn't and an incredibly stupid thing to do even if it was). Everyone will say cyclists do this, motorists do that, stupid jaywalking pedestrians... blah blah. People are dicks whatever mode of transportation they use and the law should reflect that.
That is precisely the reason why I refuse to ride on sidewalks and always stop at zebra crossings to let people pass. I tend to think that the person in a higher momentum vehicle has much more liability for his actions, i.e. baby < kid < adult < bicycle < car < SUV < bus.
I commute by bicycle. Cars are generally something I don't have to worry about because my commute is mainly not on roads and where it is there are generous bike lanes (although I have been almost hit by cars, deliberately, before). The non-road portions of my commute are on paths that are marked at regular intervals with words and symbols noting that the paths are shared between pedestrians and cyclists.
Every "close encounter" with a pedestrian I've ever had has been because the pedestrian, usually with his face buried deeply into his phone, starts swerving to the side or, worse, abruptly turns. Responsibility is on all parties in spaces where there is shared traffic, not just cyclists or cars or pedestrians.
I cycle a lot myself but I would agree that a lot of cyclists ride like idiots. They are irresponsible around cars and irresponsible around pedestrians. It always bothers me when I see them ride around at night without lights at high speed. That's just asking for trouble.
In my hometown I regularly see pedestrians walking/jogging in the bike lanes, even though the sidewalks are clear. I just think every group has its assholes.
In my hometown, runners use the bike lanes and cyclists use the sidewalks. Not quite that extreme, but true in many cases.
I run in bike lanes to avoid the dip and rise at every driveway and to make myself more visible to drivers at intersections. I will hop on the sidewalk if a cyclist is approaching.
I've seldom had a cyclist stop for me at a crosswalk (when crossing), when they either have a stop sign, or I had the green but there were no cars in the opposite direction. It seems as though they felt I "got in their way" meanwhile as a pedestrian I have the right of way and I should not have to tie my crossing to avoid their path.
Comments
Everyone kicks down. I've seen drivers treat cyclists like shit, and seen cyclists treat pedestrians like shit. In my hometown there have been a couple of deaths of pedestrians because cyclists are too busy being macho on their morning commute. As a pedestrian, I've been buzzed and verbally abused by cyclists riding where they're not supposed to.
Yes, the cars:cyclists thing is more dangerous to life and limb, but cyclists:pedestrians has the same proportion of arseholes. I'm not sure who pedestrians 'kick down' to, but no doubt they'd be the same if they do.
My city had 47 pedestrians killed by cars in 2016, and back in 2010 we had the first and last known pedstrian-cyclist collision fatality, it was an 80 year old man.
How many cars do you have driving and how many bicycles? If the number of cars is greater than 47x the number of bikes, might completely flip that outcome.
I just read the article about statistics errors including base rate fallacy on HN today, worth a read:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14545089
Another caveat would be how many are sharing the same space. In a lot of places cyclist and pedestrians are sharing a footpath or some sort of shared cycle path. There aren't nearly as many shared spaces between cars and people.
I'm not sure why the focus is so much on the death rate. To me, my comment reads more about the arsehole behaviour of various groups. I even literally state that at the start of the second paragraph. The GP is talking about drivers acting like arseholes, and I'm responding that cyclists act like arseholes too, and so would pedestrians if they had someone to 'kick down' to.
Interesting, though, that you seek to 'excuse' the death of the pedestrian in your city 'because he's old', but don't bother to note the age spread of the vehicular deaths.
I don't know where they get this statistic from. Is it provable? In Sweden they separate cars and bikes and there are much fewer accidents as a result. I heard a cyclist had thrown their bike at a horse because they felt the track was 'bikes-only' (it wasn't and an incredibly stupid thing to do even if it was). Everyone will say cyclists do this, motorists do that, stupid jaywalking pedestrians... blah blah. People are dicks whatever mode of transportation they use and the law should reflect that.
That is precisely the reason why I refuse to ride on sidewalks and always stop at zebra crossings to let people pass. I tend to think that the person in a higher momentum vehicle has much more liability for his actions, i.e. baby < kid < adult < bicycle < car < SUV < bus.
I commute by bicycle. Cars are generally something I don't have to worry about because my commute is mainly not on roads and where it is there are generous bike lanes (although I have been almost hit by cars, deliberately, before). The non-road portions of my commute are on paths that are marked at regular intervals with words and symbols noting that the paths are shared between pedestrians and cyclists.
Every "close encounter" with a pedestrian I've ever had has been because the pedestrian, usually with his face buried deeply into his phone, starts swerving to the side or, worse, abruptly turns. Responsibility is on all parties in spaces where there is shared traffic, not just cyclists or cars or pedestrians.
I cycle a lot myself but I would agree that a lot of cyclists ride like idiots. They are irresponsible around cars and irresponsible around pedestrians. It always bothers me when I see them ride around at night without lights at high speed. That's just asking for trouble.
You probably don't notice the 99% of cyclists who are actually behaving themselves, clowns tend to stand out like that.
Probably true.
"In my hometown there have been a couple of deaths of pedestrians because cyclists are too busy being macho on their morning commute"
Over what time frame? Can you cite sources? This would be an unusually high death rate unless you mean over many years.
In my hometown I regularly see pedestrians walking/jogging in the bike lanes, even though the sidewalks are clear. I just think every group has its assholes.
In my hometown, runners use the bike lanes and cyclists use the sidewalks. Not quite that extreme, but true in many cases.
I run in bike lanes to avoid the dip and rise at every driveway and to make myself more visible to drivers at intersections. I will hop on the sidewalk if a cyclist is approaching.
I've seldom had a cyclist stop for me at a crosswalk (when crossing), when they either have a stop sign, or I had the green but there were no cars in the opposite direction. It seems as though they felt I "got in their way" meanwhile as a pedestrian I have the right of way and I should not have to tie my crossing to avoid their path.
This is your argument in favor of the status quo? Or are you just expressing some feelings?