I was in contact with Dublin Bus during the development of the app. Sent them screenshots, etc. Anyone who responded thought it was a good idea, but passed me on to talk to someone else in the bureaucracy (it's a public company funded by the taxpayer).
In the end, the leads fizzled out and I didn't get written permission to use the data from Dublin Bus. I continued to keep them up to date on it, hoping that they'd even call me up on it so that we could figure something out. My objective was to get at the data cleanly without having to scrape, and also to form a relationship that might allow me to use the upcoming real-time data.
As I mentioned in the post, there was no app available for this before mine. Dublin Bus website is a mess (they've updated it in the last few months, but it's still awful) and it's particularly awkward to use on a small screen.
They're a government owned company and others have pointed out that 'data' can't have a copyright, but I'm not really sure to be honest. I suspect they're aware of it and are choosing not to act since it's benefiting their service.
I would argue that this is a different issue to what this other developer has done: He has taken my schema and my translation of the data which is my own original work.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, but I agree you have done work that should be protectable. I commend you for approaching them, but you shouldn’t have given up. Without written agreement from bus company that you have permission it’s going to be very hard to go after him. Get that and you are golden.
Data doesn't have copyright, but in europe a database such as this is protected by the 96/9/EC Database Directive (most members states implemented this around 1999/2000).
This includes non-electronic databases, so even if you scanned all this data from timetables published on paper, they'd still be protected by database rights -- and you don't have the right to use substantial parts of it without a license. (nor does your competitor).
(Assuming a government organization has database rights in the same way a person or corporation can have them).
Comments
I was in contact with Dublin Bus during the development of the app. Sent them screenshots, etc. Anyone who responded thought it was a good idea, but passed me on to talk to someone else in the bureaucracy (it's a public company funded by the taxpayer).
In the end, the leads fizzled out and I didn't get written permission to use the data from Dublin Bus. I continued to keep them up to date on it, hoping that they'd even call me up on it so that we could figure something out. My objective was to get at the data cleanly without having to scrape, and also to form a relationship that might allow me to use the upcoming real-time data.
As I mentioned in the post, there was no app available for this before mine. Dublin Bus website is a mess (they've updated it in the last few months, but it's still awful) and it's particularly awkward to use on a small screen.
They're a government owned company and others have pointed out that 'data' can't have a copyright, but I'm not really sure to be honest. I suspect they're aware of it and are choosing not to act since it's benefiting their service.
I would argue that this is a different issue to what this other developer has done: He has taken my schema and my translation of the data which is my own original work.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, but I agree you have done work that should be protectable. I commend you for approaching them, but you shouldn’t have given up. Without written agreement from bus company that you have permission it’s going to be very hard to go after him. Get that and you are golden.
They have original creator rights and recourse for the way you extracted data without those permissions in place. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1997/73032--c.htm#15
While you could argue he has ripped you off, without that written permission to use the data you can’t effectively argue your case.
I’d say your sin was less deliberate and more from a position of ignorance, but sadly in law that’s little defence.
(IANAL, usual caveats apply. Seek legal advice, blah, blah.)
Data doesn't have copyright, but in europe a database such as this is protected by the 96/9/EC Database Directive (most members states implemented this around 1999/2000).
This includes non-electronic databases, so even if you scanned all this data from timetables published on paper, they'd still be protected by database rights -- and you don't have the right to use substantial parts of it without a license. (nor does your competitor).
(Assuming a government organization has database rights in the same way a person or corporation can have them).