We still have slave labor in the USA, just throw people in prison and strongly suggest to them their lives will suck less if they work for 30 cents per hour. If they want to go outside, they can get $1 an hour but they risk death.
It's voluntary. So long as prison conditions are humane enough to make remaining in jail a viable option, this can help prisoners.
The real danger would be the possibility that this is incentivizing the government to increase the prison population in order to reap the fruits of greater prison labor.
Of course, that's all to say nothing about the national disgrace that 5% of the world's population has 25% of the world's prisoners.
It is not. The power differential between the prisoner and the state is so great that any consent is null and void. As such it can never be voluntary. It is the same reason a prisoner cannot voluntarily have sex with a guard, except the relationship between prisoner and state is even greater of power difference than that between prisoner and guard.
Taking the drug war into account, it does become painfully clear that the present system is morally reprehensible, arguably even amounting to a continuation of African-American slavery, in a modern form.
In my original comment, I only had the hypothetical scenario of prison work in mind. It should have been a lot more obvious that actual context summarily demolishes any argument for it.
In general I agree with you that prison industrial complex is a huge problem in this country. However, in this case it sounds like they can already afford to be somewhat selective with which inmates they choose, so I'm not too worried they'll jail people so they can get cheap firefighters anytime soon.
I'm not too worried they'll jail people so they can get cheap firefighters anytime soon.
You do know that the private prison system is literally leaning on state governments and threatening them with breach of contract for not keeping prisons full, right?
... and that not only does the US have the highest per capita incarcaration rate of any country in the world, but California has an even higher per capity incarcaration rate?
... and that many US corporations have business models which rely on prison labor?
People I know closely who work in non-profit prison policy reform do not feel this way. They see private prisons as a problem, but nearly as big of a one as you make it out to be. And they're quite supportive of initiatives such as the firefighter program for prisoners.
You do know that the private prison system is literally leaning on state governments and threatening them with breach of contract for not keeping prisons full, right?
Assuming you are correct, I retract any sympathy my other comment displayed toward these kind of work programs.
Yes it is slave labor, but it is legal to an extent. From the article:
David Ball, an assistant professor in criminal justice at the Santa Clara University School of Law, says inmate firefighters are part of a long history of prison labour in the US, pointing out that when Congress passed the 13th Amendment in 1865, which abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, it made a specific exclusion for penal servitude by including the phrase "except as a punishment for crime".
Yes it is slave labor, but it is legal to an extent.
As outright slavery - the treatment of human beings as property - once was.
An argument is often made that if a prisoner is contributing work that is essential to the operation of the prison, that is easier to accept than an economy which relies on prison labor.
There are wildfires in California every single year. That means that every single year, some prisoners - likely nonviolent - will be asked to risk their lives for $1 a day.
$1 a day.
I bet some of those folks only crime was selling weed.
The conversation here about slave labor made me think of my Air Force enlistment. I couldn't even get a sunburn during my enlistment without getting in trouble for "damaging government property."
Comments
We still have slave labor in the USA, just throw people in prison and strongly suggest to them their lives will suck less if they work for 30 cents per hour. If they want to go outside, they can get $1 an hour but they risk death.
It's voluntary. So long as prison conditions are humane enough to make remaining in jail a viable option, this can help prisoners.
The real danger would be the possibility that this is incentivizing the government to increase the prison population in order to reap the fruits of greater prison labor.
Of course, that's all to say nothing about the national disgrace that 5% of the world's population has 25% of the world's prisoners.
It is not. The power differential between the prisoner and the state is so great that any consent is null and void. As such it can never be voluntary. It is the same reason a prisoner cannot voluntarily have sex with a guard, except the relationship between prisoner and state is even greater of power difference than that between prisoner and guard.
California prisons are horrifically overcrowded, literally they are under court order to reduce it, so your qualifier fails.
I will certainly accept that the qualifier fails; I am well aware of that our prisons have serious problems.
It's worth reading an interview with Chomsky, talking on this subject in 1998: http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/199804--.htm
Great link.
Taking the drug war into account, it does become painfully clear that the present system is morally reprehensible, arguably even amounting to a continuation of African-American slavery, in a modern form.
In my original comment, I only had the hypothetical scenario of prison work in mind. It should have been a lot more obvious that actual context summarily demolishes any argument for it.
Prison-industrial complex up in this :(
In general I agree with you that prison industrial complex is a huge problem in this country. However, in this case it sounds like they can already afford to be somewhat selective with which inmates they choose, so I'm not too worried they'll jail people so they can get cheap firefighters anytime soon.
You do know that the private prison system is literally leaning on state governments and threatening them with breach of contract for not keeping prisons full, right?
... and that not only does the US have the highest per capita incarcaration rate of any country in the world, but California has an even higher per capity incarcaration rate?
... and that many US corporations have business models which rely on prison labor?
People I know closely who work in non-profit prison policy reform do not feel this way. They see private prisons as a problem, but nearly as big of a one as you make it out to be. And they're quite supportive of initiatives such as the firefighter program for prisoners.
Assuming you are correct, I retract any sympathy my other comment displayed toward these kind of work programs.
I don't know if this counts as a reputable source, but here's a related story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/private-prison-quot...
Cursory DuckDuckGoing yields many more.
Yes it is slave labor, but it is legal to an extent. From the article:
David Ball, an assistant professor in criminal justice at the Santa Clara University School of Law, says inmate firefighters are part of a long history of prison labour in the US, pointing out that when Congress passed the 13th Amendment in 1865, which abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, it made a specific exclusion for penal servitude by including the phrase "except as a punishment for crime".
As outright slavery - the treatment of human beings as property - once was.
An argument is often made that if a prisoner is contributing work that is essential to the operation of the prison, that is easier to accept than an economy which relies on prison labor.
There are wildfires in California every single year. That means that every single year, some prisoners - likely nonviolent - will be asked to risk their lives for $1 a day.
$1 a day.
I bet some of those folks only crime was selling weed.
FYI: The article says the rate of pay is $2/day + $1 per hour.
-not saying I am in support of the situation (or that I'm not) ...
Most people don't realize slavery is still legal in the US. Highly controlled and with the state effectively holding a monopoly, but still legal.
The conversation here about slave labor made me think of my Air Force enlistment. I couldn't even get a sunburn during my enlistment without getting in trouble for "damaging government property."
I'd choose firefighting over sitting in a cell.