Skip to content

Comment on What the Dunning-Kruger effect is and isn’t (2010)

Comments

Looks like a good article overall. I have just one qualm:

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Ah, but it is. It's biased, hard to analyse, fraught with many perils… but it is still relevant information. Even though anecdotes are rarely conclusive, They can often tell you where you should look next.

This is similar to the correlation/causation thing. Sure, correlation doesn't imply causation. But it sure makes it much more probable.

Ah, but it often belies and smooths over the important distinguishing factor of data: statistical significance.

Simply having "plural" is not enough. You need a well-designed experiment, with well-controlled variables, good methods and measurements, good consistent recording, and enough points of that nature to show significance. And all that without natural biases, such as the confirmation bias so common with anecdotes. You can have as many self-reported stories from a self-selecting population as you like and it still won't be good data, due to the inherent bias in the method.

It's difficult to recognize these biases, which is why we say "the plural of anecdote is not data." Not because some data isn't a series of anecdotal points, but because good data is often so much more, and it's important to respect that. Sure, use it to guide your instincts, but don't mistake it for rigorous science.

You're making a lot of assumptions, though. You're assuming self-selection, and you're assuming what kinds of situations the data is being used. The plural of anecdote isn't data, but a group of anecdotes isn't inherently not data.

Further, a collection of many anecdotes is not necessarily great data, but the quality of data can be taken into account when making assertions about it, and you can attach confidence ratings to assertions made based on data with known faults.

The problem here is that "the plural of anecdote isn't data" is just a short, snappy thing to say, that doesn't capture any of the nuances of what data is and how it's used. A lot of times it's used to express a legitimate point, but I think we could express that point more accurately by actually talking about what data is instead of oversimplifying the concern.

Statistical significance? At what p-value? Controlled studies are great, but claims of "statistical significance" are not as strong as we make them to be. I also don't like this idea of an arbitrary threshold.

For the nice case of comparing two hypotheses, I'd rather talk about decibels of evidence: which hypothesis does it support, and how strongly does it support it. That way you don't even have to chose a null hypothesis. (You still have to work with some "priors", but in practice you have to assume things anyway).

Sure, use it to guide your instincts, but don't mistake it for rigorous science.

"Rigorous science" is the easy part. It's the point where you already have some insight or theory in mind, and you just have to test it. But first, you need to get that insight, or formulate your theory. At that point, your instincts is pretty much all you have.

Yeah, even the original quote is "The plural of anecdote is data"

http://evidence-based-science.blogspot.ie/2009/11/plural-of-...

If it wasn't, where would data come from?

Controlled, repeatable studies designed to counter biases and generate meaningful findings. If you really loosen up the meaning of the word "anecdote" then sure, a series of certain conforming anecdotes do become data. But it doesn't follow that all collections of anecdotes are data.

Further, when dealing with psychological or (many) sociological/biological subjects where you can not do a double blind test for moral reasons and all data is anecdotal (ie. self-reported), don't researchers overlook this bit of conventional wisdom?

In fact, from my experience (haha), it seems that people use anecdotal evidence whenever it helps them or supports a popular opinion, but then demand stronger evidence when it goes against their current belief.

The correlation/causation trope is a thought terminating cliche that we often need to look past. To me, the use of it is often something to take note of; that one is being manipulated by rhetoric.

You're right, but I think more importantly sometimes data is not data. A white suburbanite will collect anecdotes from other white suburbanites, like for example that the police are to be trusted. Then a study which doesn't properly control for these variables says the same thing. The anecdotes are actually more informative, since they are passed by word of mouth among similar people: they get at facts about the world that are true about the people you associate with. A black person would be unlikely to trust these anecdotes, but dress it up in SASS and call it a study and everyone pretends it's objective. More insiduous yet is that selection biases are usually this damning but much less obvious, and most studies are run on a select group of upper middle class educated psychology majors..

"The plural of anecdote is not data" is usually a shorthand for "Not every set of anecdotes is useful data."

AboutSource Built by g1lg1l

Hackerly is an independent reader for Hacker News, built on the public HN API. Not affiliated with Y Combinator.