Yeah, much in the same way that the South ca 1860 must've felt a lot freer and friendlier than, say, New York, provided you were white.
Also, if you were upper class Englishman presumably no one bothered you on entry to India ca 1920, or made a fuss if you got a bit drunk. I suppose police would be quite nice to you as well. And all the natives seemed so friendly and happy.
Exactly. I wish i could upvote this again. I'm assuming that, with a name like Max Klein, the parent is not a lower class Chinese citizen. You're lucky.
I don't know where you visited in the US, but it doesn't sound at all like where I live.
* Most people I encounter are happy and friendly, even the poor and unemployed.
* I'm not accustomed to seeing police carrying anything more than a holstered service pistol.
* Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public (in this state).
* I've never seen anyone "treated like a criminal" for being drunk, so long as they aren't violent or otherwise harming other people.
* I've never experienced more than cursory questions on entry to the US, with 1 exception: returning to the US on Sept 14, 2001
Personally, I've lived in and visited enough places around the world that I would never reach a judgment on what a place is really like based on a brief visit, especially not a country as large as the US or China.
> ... I would never reach a judgment on what a place is really like based on a brief visit, especially not a country as large as the US or China.
Indeed. Personally I find the recitation of anecdotal evidence for how "free" a country is to be bollocks. Alright, so the country "feels" freer sometimes, but that's not a sound argument for its actual freedom.
> * I'm not accustomed to seeing police carrying anything more than a holstered service pistol.
More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people.
> * Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public.
I don't know where you live, but public nudity will get you in trouble just about anywhere in the U.S. You just can't stroll through a mall naked, you will be forcibly removed and you will meet some police.
> I've never seen anyone "treated like a criminal" for being drunk, so long as they aren't violent or otherwise harming other people.
Same as above, stroll though a mall falling over drunk and you'll meet some police very quickly. Public drunkenness will get you in trouble in most public places that aren't a bar.
> More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people.
I suppose that might be true in some places, but I've lived in Europe
and spent a fair amount of time in Mexico, and my observations in both
were that the police carried much more serious weaponry under normal
circumstances than you see in the US.
> I don't know where you live, but public nudity will get you in trouble just about anywhere in the U.S.
I live in Oregon, where we have a constitutional right to be naked in
public.
> You just can't stroll through a mall naked, you will be forcibly removed and you will meet some police.
Malls are private property, not public property. The owners of the
mall have every bit as much right to exclude someone being naked on
their property as I do on my property.
> Same as above, stroll though a mall falling over drunk and you'll meet some police very quickly. Public drunkenness will get you in trouble in most public places that aren't a bar.
Again, malls are private property. And, I suppose I can’t argue with
whatever your experiences were, but I see lots of drunk people
wandering about on a typical Friday or Saturday and the only ones who
have problems with the police are the ones who try to start fights, or
who won’t leave private property when asked.
I suppose that might be true in some places, but I've lived in Europe and spent a fair amount of time in Mexico, and my observations in both were that the police carried much more serious weaponry under normal circumstances than you see in the US
Indeed. Get off the Eurostar at GdN and you will see soldiers patrolling the place with assault rifles. Same around the Tour Eiffel. And this is in France. No-one bats an eyelid. I've never seen routine patrols in any US city carrying M16s.
> I'm not accustomed to seeing police carrying anything more than a holstered service pistol.
More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people.
I remember traveling to the UK from the US as a kid with my family. In the airport there were police holding fully automatic rifles. That scared me. I had never seen something like that. I was thinking "WTF is going on in the UK??". I of course had no idea that the UK was supposed to be "gun free".
The only time I remember seeing police/security people in the US with automatic weapons (in person) was at the airport right after Sept. 11th. I have seen police holding (semi)automatic weapons in several countries now. It is much scarier than the standard holstered pistol you see in the US.
You can in Oregon. Our courts have ruled that our state constitution's guarantee of freedom of expression includes public nudity. (There are some minor quibbles over the exact extent of this but there are several large scale naked events in Portland every year, as well as some well-known naked people who show up regularly around town. There's also been cases like people mowing their lawns naked, which the police can't do anything about even in the face of neighbors' complaints.)
I don't disagree that there are some definitions of freedom where China feels more free than the USA. However, I think you're missing the point. What about the Chinese peasant farmers that don't even have urban residency permits?
I'm not sure what you meant by unavailable to tourists.
Nobody forces you to stay with a tour or anything, it's not like North Korea. Of course, if you stick to a guided-tour, you probably won't see too much. If you leave the city, you can find plenty of backpackers.
The friendliness probably has more to do with the culture being more laid-back then political freedom.
What? Which areas? I suppose "tourists" are not allowed into govt facilities and military bases. Everywhere else is fair game.
Disturbing you have collected 8 upvotes for this utter nonsense. I challenge you to name any area of the country permanently off limits to foreigners. China is hardly perfect but what you insinuate is just BS.
While not "permanently off limits to foreigners", you might have difficulty travelling around parts of Tibet or Xinjiang for example without an official "guide".
That might be true during periods of unrest, yes, as the government is concerned about media appearances. Basically, if the disturbance is making headlines overseas, you'll have difficulty gaining access.
At any other time, though, it should be fine. It's not North Korea.
Comments
I went to china and the US:
* Nobody questioned me on entry into china like I was a criminal
* Policemen don't walk around with guns like they are ready to gun you down
* When a girl removes her shirt, she she is not jailed in china
* When I drink excessively and start acting the fool, I am treated like an idiot in china, not like a criminal
I visited both countries. In china, people are happy and friendly. In American, people are trapped and unfriendly.
China feels a lot freeer than the United States.
Yeah, much in the same way that the South ca 1860 must've felt a lot freer and friendlier than, say, New York, provided you were white.
Also, if you were upper class Englishman presumably no one bothered you on entry to India ca 1920, or made a fuss if you got a bit drunk. I suppose police would be quite nice to you as well. And all the natives seemed so friendly and happy.
Exactly. I wish i could upvote this again. I'm assuming that, with a name like Max Klein, the parent is not a lower class Chinese citizen. You're lucky.
What about if I could be mistaken for an arab, and my comment were made from that perspective?
I don't know where you visited in the US, but it doesn't sound at all like where I live.
* Most people I encounter are happy and friendly, even the poor and unemployed.
* I'm not accustomed to seeing police carrying anything more than a holstered service pistol.
* Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public (in this state).
* I've never seen anyone "treated like a criminal" for being drunk, so long as they aren't violent or otherwise harming other people.
* I've never experienced more than cursory questions on entry to the US, with 1 exception: returning to the US on Sept 14, 2001
Personally, I've lived in and visited enough places around the world that I would never reach a judgment on what a place is really like based on a brief visit, especially not a country as large as the US or China.
> ... I would never reach a judgment on what a place is really like based on a brief visit, especially not a country as large as the US or China.
Indeed. Personally I find the recitation of anecdotal evidence for how "free" a country is to be bollocks. Alright, so the country "feels" freer sometimes, but that's not a sound argument for its actual freedom.
> * I'm not accustomed to seeing police carrying anything more than a holstered service pistol.
More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people.
> * Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public.
I don't know where you live, but public nudity will get you in trouble just about anywhere in the U.S. You just can't stroll through a mall naked, you will be forcibly removed and you will meet some police.
> I've never seen anyone "treated like a criminal" for being drunk, so long as they aren't violent or otherwise harming other people.
Same as above, stroll though a mall falling over drunk and you'll meet some police very quickly. Public drunkenness will get you in trouble in most public places that aren't a bar.
> More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people.
I suppose that might be true in some places, but I've lived in Europe and spent a fair amount of time in Mexico, and my observations in both were that the police carried much more serious weaponry under normal circumstances than you see in the US.
> I don't know where you live, but public nudity will get you in trouble just about anywhere in the U.S.
I live in Oregon, where we have a constitutional right to be naked in public.
> You just can't stroll through a mall naked, you will be forcibly removed and you will meet some police.
Malls are private property, not public property. The owners of the mall have every bit as much right to exclude someone being naked on their property as I do on my property.
> Same as above, stroll though a mall falling over drunk and you'll meet some police very quickly. Public drunkenness will get you in trouble in most public places that aren't a bar.
Again, malls are private property. And, I suppose I can’t argue with whatever your experiences were, but I see lots of drunk people wandering about on a typical Friday or Saturday and the only ones who have problems with the police are the ones who try to start fights, or who won’t leave private property when asked.
I suppose that might be true in some places, but I've lived in Europe and spent a fair amount of time in Mexico, and my observations in both were that the police carried much more serious weaponry under normal circumstances than you see in the US
Indeed. Get off the Eurostar at GdN and you will see soldiers patrolling the place with assault rifles. Same around the Tour Eiffel. And this is in France. No-one bats an eyelid. I've never seen routine patrols in any US city carrying M16s.
> I live in Oregon, where we have a constitutional right to be naked in public.
Interesting, but Oregon is rather progressive, which is why I think I'll eventually end up in or near Portland. I live in Arizona, it sucks.
> Malls are private property, not public property.
A bad example perhaps, substitute "the mall" with a stroll down a public street, in most states you'll be arrested.
> I'm not accustomed to seeing police carrying anything more than a holstered service pistol.
More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people.
I remember traveling to the UK from the US as a kid with my family. In the airport there were police holding fully automatic rifles. That scared me. I had never seen something like that. I was thinking "WTF is going on in the UK??". I of course had no idea that the UK was supposed to be "gun free".
The only time I remember seeing police/security people in the US with automatic weapons (in person) was at the airport right after Sept. 11th. I have seen police holding (semi)automatic weapons in several countries now. It is much scarier than the standard holstered pistol you see in the US.
You only see that at airports and stations. Ordinary British police don't carry guns at all.
>* Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public.
Have you tried this outside of a college campus? Pretty sure you can't.
You can in Oregon. Our courts have ruled that our state constitution's guarantee of freedom of expression includes public nudity. (There are some minor quibbles over the exact extent of this but there are several large scale naked events in Portland every year, as well as some well-known naked people who show up regularly around town. There's also been cases like people mowing their lawns naked, which the police can't do anything about even in the face of neighbors' complaints.)
I don't disagree that there are some definitions of freedom where China feels more free than the USA. However, I think you're missing the point. What about the Chinese peasant farmers that don't even have urban residency permits?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system#Household_registra...
When you were in China, you were shown only what you were meant to see. There are large portions of China which are unavaliable to tourists.
I'm not sure what you meant by unavailable to tourists.
Nobody forces you to stay with a tour or anything, it's not like North Korea. Of course, if you stick to a guided-tour, you probably won't see too much. If you leave the city, you can find plenty of backpackers.
The friendliness probably has more to do with the culture being more laid-back then political freedom.
What? Which areas? I suppose "tourists" are not allowed into govt facilities and military bases. Everywhere else is fair game.
Disturbing you have collected 8 upvotes for this utter nonsense. I challenge you to name any area of the country permanently off limits to foreigners. China is hardly perfect but what you insinuate is just BS.
While not "permanently off limits to foreigners", you might have difficulty travelling around parts of Tibet or Xinjiang for example without an official "guide".
That might be true during periods of unrest, yes, as the government is concerned about media appearances. Basically, if the disturbance is making headlines overseas, you'll have difficulty gaining access.
At any other time, though, it should be fine. It's not North Korea.