The jury is still out on Heroes of the Storm, but it has simplified the game to a point where new players to the genre are getting into it. It may be a case where League of Legends already hit close enough to that sweet spot and built enough of a fanbase that HotS doesn't stand a chance, even if it is better executed.
I would not call Diablo 3 a flop, by the way. The game has sold over 30 million copies, and the console releases and post-real-money-auction-house balance changes have supposedly made the game great (I'm not a fan of the genre so I don't know first-hand).
Anyway, no need to get into too many details on the particulars. They've had enough breakout successes and "unicorn" level games that there's something about the strategy and execution that sets Blizzard apart.
From what I can observe, it's some mix of the following:
- Simplifying down the core gameplay to something that players can grasp quickly, without compromising complexity (that can be safely ignored for the initial stages).
- Making the core gameplay loop fun and repeatable without being repetitive.
- Making players feel rewarded for playing and purchasing. (see Hearthstone's "won the game" screen and opening pack animations)
- Keeping the games deep enough so that even top, professional players never hit a skill cap.
I wouldn't be that quickly talking about Blizzard success. The only games with which they are taking a bit of risk are HS, HotS and Overwatch (and it seems that the only successful one is HS by now, the rest are popular just by the name of the company behind them and the effort advertising them). Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 sold themselves just by their names.
[Diablo 3] game has sold over 30 million copies, and the console releases and post-real-money-auction-house balance changes have supposedly made the game great
Diablo 3 is an excellent game on both PC and Console. The balance changes that they made were a significant improvement, and I'd consider the current D3 one of Blizzard's great successes as gameplay goes. It greatly expanded on Diablo 2 with completely new and fresh mechanics that have been an absolute blast to explore as a gamer. It was a little too unforgiving before those balance changes, with bumpy progression and a difficult skill cliff, and overly reliant on the auction house (not intentionally in a gimmicky way; it's just how it turned out when AH prices dropped ridiculously low due to surplus supply). It's great now though. Diablo 3's artwork is beautiful, and to achieve it they developed an innovative new style which they presented at GDC 2012:
(This is what I mean by "fresh" by the way: something new and interesting that you haven't seen before, even in an industry that tries it all. The painterly style was definitely fresh, and even in the years since then I haven't seen an imitation. I suspect it's too technically challenging, requiring a custom engine and a different way of designing environments.)
I guess you can tell that I'm a fan. I think you hit on all the things that Blizzard does well: repeatable without repetitive, simple but deep with high skill cap, where you discover new things about the game mechanics yourself over time. Diablo 3 is especially fun because of its multiplayer coop. It's great to get the S.O. or friends in the same room and collaborate, especially on console.
Diablo 3 has continued to trickle out new content over time for free after its expansion, Reaper of Souls, which has further helped to improve balance and make it interesting. I wish they would release more content though, since the game by its nature is ultimately repetitive. (Hard to justify financially with no recurring subscription. I would be very happy to pay for one if it meant more content!) There are rumors that Blizzard will release another expansion, which I will be super excited to explore if they do. I personally feel it's one of the best games ever made, and definitely the best action RPG. I don't think this quality of design can be boiled down just to a list of things they do well. It's definitely something more than that. They have an internal compass of what it takes to make awesome games, and they're willing to wait and iterate on their development as long as it takes to get there.
Heroes of the Storm I'm skeptical of. It's much more directly a rip-off than any other Blizzard game, and I haven't seen much fresh or new come out of it yet.
Hacker News feels like a strange place to talk about video game appreciation, but here is goes.
I've played an insane amount of Diablo 1, an unreasonable amount of Diablo 2, but when it came to Diablo 3, I barely finished the game one time and I that was it. I had an okay time playing it. The overall experience was just "meh".
And it's not because I was sick of playing video games in general. I still played an unreasonable amount of Torchlight 1-2.
To me, Torchlight offered a better "Diablo" experience than Diablo 3.
I know that a lot of thought went into making Diablo 3 playable beyond the end of the game. Online auction and all that. But it's hard to want to play more of a game when the game is barely enjoyable in the first playthrough.
Maybe it's not for everyone. D3 has improved considerably since its initial release. What I enjoyed specifically about the game was the process of leveling a character (repeated across many different classes), to unlock the new spell casting and action mechanics. Yet at the same time, you're not "stuck" with a permanent investment in any one skill tree, like you were in D2. That provided a good sense of exploration. I think D3 defined a better equipment model where skill damage is based on weapon damage. I was skeptical about this at first - What? Wizards can use swords and do just as much damage as with wands? - but it works out well. It makes items more portable across classes, and generally makes gear finding more fun. You'll use whatever you find, including big ridiculous axes as a wizard.
By the way, they have substantially changed gear drop balance since launch. Back at launch, item stats were completely randomized, so it might take a lot of grinding before you'd find the +mainstat attribute that you want. One area where I think Blizzard excels by making hard choices in game design is recognizing when "the game essentially makes this option mandatory", and then taking it out to improve the fun. So for example, Blizzard has been removing or redesigning castable buffs from WOW due to the theory that having to cast these repeatedly is not helping anyone enjoy the game. So now those effects are just built into the classes instead. Similarly with Diablo 3, they embraced the idea that most players will see +mainstat is simply being necessary for any gear to be viable, and they altered the drop mechanic so that it's virtually guaranteed as a property on most gear. No longer do Barbarians and Demon Hunters see +int gear.
This was part of the path to eliminating the auction house. Previously, getting the right combination of every stat you needed at high level required a lot of RNG across a marketplace. Now, D3's item generation has been redone in some subtle and clever way. I think they are doing something akin to what Valve did with the AI director in Left 4 Dead. That is, D3 tracks how frequently good items are dropping, that seem like an upgrade for you, and makes sure they are in fact dropping regularly. It ensures you get a legendary item drop every few hours. (Yes, that frequent! The balance is different now so that that's not insane.) Thus players can expect to get frequent upgrades and regular new gear sets just by playing solo. This is a big improvement for casual players.
One where where I'd criticize D3 was elements of unintentional bathos. For example, the player character's interactions with Azmodan and Belial definitely veer into bathos territory. Azmodan is supposed to be one of the great evils of the world, what he says amounts to little more than, "I'll get you next time, wascally wabbit!" The dialog there is not great, but the story and graphics are fun overall.
I've recently started playing Torchlight 2 as well, but haven't gotten very far. How does it compare to D3? Or rather, what would you say it excels it where D3 stumbles?
Comments
The jury is still out on Heroes of the Storm, but it has simplified the game to a point where new players to the genre are getting into it. It may be a case where League of Legends already hit close enough to that sweet spot and built enough of a fanbase that HotS doesn't stand a chance, even if it is better executed.
I would not call Diablo 3 a flop, by the way. The game has sold over 30 million copies, and the console releases and post-real-money-auction-house balance changes have supposedly made the game great (I'm not a fan of the genre so I don't know first-hand).
Anyway, no need to get into too many details on the particulars. They've had enough breakout successes and "unicorn" level games that there's something about the strategy and execution that sets Blizzard apart.
From what I can observe, it's some mix of the following:
- Simplifying down the core gameplay to something that players can grasp quickly, without compromising complexity (that can be safely ignored for the initial stages).
- Making the core gameplay loop fun and repeatable without being repetitive.
- Making players feel rewarded for playing and purchasing. (see Hearthstone's "won the game" screen and opening pack animations)
- Keeping the games deep enough so that even top, professional players never hit a skill cap.
I wouldn't be that quickly talking about Blizzard success. The only games with which they are taking a bit of risk are HS, HotS and Overwatch (and it seems that the only successful one is HS by now, the rest are popular just by the name of the company behind them and the effort advertising them). Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 sold themselves just by their names.
Diablo 3 is an excellent game on both PC and Console. The balance changes that they made were a significant improvement, and I'd consider the current D3 one of Blizzard's great successes as gameplay goes. It greatly expanded on Diablo 2 with completely new and fresh mechanics that have been an absolute blast to explore as a gamer. It was a little too unforgiving before those balance changes, with bumpy progression and a difficult skill cliff, and overly reliant on the auction house (not intentionally in a gimmicky way; it's just how it turned out when AH prices dropped ridiculously low due to surplus supply). It's great now though. Diablo 3's artwork is beautiful, and to achieve it they developed an innovative new style which they presented at GDC 2012:
http://gdcvault.com/play/1015306/The-Art-of-Diablo
(This is what I mean by "fresh" by the way: something new and interesting that you haven't seen before, even in an industry that tries it all. The painterly style was definitely fresh, and even in the years since then I haven't seen an imitation. I suspect it's too technically challenging, requiring a custom engine and a different way of designing environments.)
I guess you can tell that I'm a fan. I think you hit on all the things that Blizzard does well: repeatable without repetitive, simple but deep with high skill cap, where you discover new things about the game mechanics yourself over time. Diablo 3 is especially fun because of its multiplayer coop. It's great to get the S.O. or friends in the same room and collaborate, especially on console.
Diablo 3 has continued to trickle out new content over time for free after its expansion, Reaper of Souls, which has further helped to improve balance and make it interesting. I wish they would release more content though, since the game by its nature is ultimately repetitive. (Hard to justify financially with no recurring subscription. I would be very happy to pay for one if it meant more content!) There are rumors that Blizzard will release another expansion, which I will be super excited to explore if they do. I personally feel it's one of the best games ever made, and definitely the best action RPG. I don't think this quality of design can be boiled down just to a list of things they do well. It's definitely something more than that. They have an internal compass of what it takes to make awesome games, and they're willing to wait and iterate on their development as long as it takes to get there.
Heroes of the Storm I'm skeptical of. It's much more directly a rip-off than any other Blizzard game, and I haven't seen much fresh or new come out of it yet.
Hacker News feels like a strange place to talk about video game appreciation, but here is goes.
I've played an insane amount of Diablo 1, an unreasonable amount of Diablo 2, but when it came to Diablo 3, I barely finished the game one time and I that was it. I had an okay time playing it. The overall experience was just "meh".
And it's not because I was sick of playing video games in general. I still played an unreasonable amount of Torchlight 1-2.
To me, Torchlight offered a better "Diablo" experience than Diablo 3.
I know that a lot of thought went into making Diablo 3 playable beyond the end of the game. Online auction and all that. But it's hard to want to play more of a game when the game is barely enjoyable in the first playthrough.
Maybe it's not for everyone. D3 has improved considerably since its initial release. What I enjoyed specifically about the game was the process of leveling a character (repeated across many different classes), to unlock the new spell casting and action mechanics. Yet at the same time, you're not "stuck" with a permanent investment in any one skill tree, like you were in D2. That provided a good sense of exploration. I think D3 defined a better equipment model where skill damage is based on weapon damage. I was skeptical about this at first - What? Wizards can use swords and do just as much damage as with wands? - but it works out well. It makes items more portable across classes, and generally makes gear finding more fun. You'll use whatever you find, including big ridiculous axes as a wizard.
By the way, they have substantially changed gear drop balance since launch. Back at launch, item stats were completely randomized, so it might take a lot of grinding before you'd find the +mainstat attribute that you want. One area where I think Blizzard excels by making hard choices in game design is recognizing when "the game essentially makes this option mandatory", and then taking it out to improve the fun. So for example, Blizzard has been removing or redesigning castable buffs from WOW due to the theory that having to cast these repeatedly is not helping anyone enjoy the game. So now those effects are just built into the classes instead. Similarly with Diablo 3, they embraced the idea that most players will see +mainstat is simply being necessary for any gear to be viable, and they altered the drop mechanic so that it's virtually guaranteed as a property on most gear. No longer do Barbarians and Demon Hunters see +int gear.
This was part of the path to eliminating the auction house. Previously, getting the right combination of every stat you needed at high level required a lot of RNG across a marketplace. Now, D3's item generation has been redone in some subtle and clever way. I think they are doing something akin to what Valve did with the AI director in Left 4 Dead. That is, D3 tracks how frequently good items are dropping, that seem like an upgrade for you, and makes sure they are in fact dropping regularly. It ensures you get a legendary item drop every few hours. (Yes, that frequent! The balance is different now so that that's not insane.) Thus players can expect to get frequent upgrades and regular new gear sets just by playing solo. This is a big improvement for casual players.
One where where I'd criticize D3 was elements of unintentional bathos. For example, the player character's interactions with Azmodan and Belial definitely veer into bathos territory. Azmodan is supposed to be one of the great evils of the world, what he says amounts to little more than, "I'll get you next time, wascally wabbit!" The dialog there is not great, but the story and graphics are fun overall.
I've recently started playing Torchlight 2 as well, but haven't gotten very far. How does it compare to D3? Or rather, what would you say it excels it where D3 stumbles?