just one question: is it a deeper or shallower stain than slavery, trail of tears, lynchings, nuking japan, vietnam, 1 million dead in the second gulf war, etc etc etc?
Yes it is different: he conditioned it on voting for him. And he is not claiming to improve any governmental system to finance this, like other politicians do when they promise welfare or tax cuts: he is saying the money is there, he is the only one who can use it, and whether you get it or not depends on giving him your vote.
You’re right, the “both sides” claim really doesn’t work here.
Biden’s student loan forgiveness would have amounted to a gift of potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars to his most ardent supporters: young, college educated, poor people.
Trump’s proposal is a fraction of that, and all Americans would be eligible. If he’s trying to buy votes, he’s going to need to try a lot harder. This proposal is nothing like Biden’s vote buying scheme.
Funny that you wake up and rise only now. Where was you righteous indignation when Republicans promises tax cuts? Can you point me to your contemporary reaction to "no tax on tips"? What made you react only now?
Have you missed where Trump himself and many of the wealthiest people in the U.S. have had integer multiples of their wealth over just the past couple of years?
young, college educated, poor people
Oh yea, you're correct, who needs those? Let's feed the 0.01%.
Since becoming president again, Trump has promised:
-$5000 stimulus checks via "DOGE dividend"
-$2000 stimulus checks via "tariff dividend"
-$1000+ checks via "savings" from expiring ACA subsidies
-$5000 "dividend" if Rs win midterms
No checks have been issuedhttps://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-magically-disappearing-st...
The sooner this guy is impeached the better. That's better than letting his term just run out as it offers more of a warning to other fruitcakes out there: the system _eventually_ works.
That isn't the way it works, there's no "three strikes" law for Presidents. If all of his extant corruption, clear senility and incompetence, throwing the global economy into chaos tumbling ass over end into an unnecessary war he can't even win and the Epstein stuff didn't get him removed from office, then this won't.
What we need is a form of legal redress more effective than a stern talking to, which is all impeachment amounts to.
There is a form of legal redress - following through in the senate with impeachment. Trump had sufficient allies in the senate when he was impeached so they dismissed it but if instead they had a 2/3 vote he could've be removed from office.
They gave Trump presidential immunity partly because the remedy for addressing any perceived lawlessness, they figured, is provided by the impeachment process. If impeachment is forclosed as even a possibility, the president is truly immune from any consequences.
Glad the law doesn’t count for the King, otherwise he would be in trouble.
The president’s Autopen though is going into overdrive signing all the pardons for every American who actually took the 5k.
Whoever makes or offers to make an expenditure to any person, either to vote or withhold his vote, or to vote for or against any candidate; and
Whoever solicits, accepts, or receives any such expenditure in consideration of his vote or the withholding of his vote—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if the violation was wilful, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
Libertarians should try at a small scale first so that others can see the genius of their ideas, and be more encouraged to vote for them. I hear New Hampshire has towns open to this idea.
Comments
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -Alexis De Tocqueville
But turns out it's a fun game for another branch of government too.
Sorry but for the record, that's a frequently repeated but unsourced misattribution. Earliest variant found is from 1951.
Good way to spend $1.3T that this party of fiscal responsibility doesn't have.
An incredible stain on the history of the US.
just one question: is it a deeper or shallower stain than slavery, trail of tears, lynchings, nuking japan, vietnam, 1 million dead in the second gulf war, etc etc etc?
lol
It’s a stain precisely because it proves Americans don’t learn from those past stains
It's too early to say, it depends on how the Iran conundrum wraps up.
I would ask how this is legal, but then again, we wouldn't even be here if something being legal or not mattered.
The insane SCOTUS ruled that the president could not be held accountable for illegal acts as long as it was deemed official acts of the US.
Even if legality did matter, the president has criminal immunity for official acts.
It's no different than promises to increase welfare or cut taxes that politicians routinely make.
This is much different than that. It's basically a direct bribe.
Yes it is different: he conditioned it on voting for him. And he is not claiming to improve any governmental system to finance this, like other politicians do when they promise welfare or tax cuts: he is saying the money is there, he is the only one who can use it, and whether you get it or not depends on giving him your vote.
It would probably make more difference if it was paid in advance :)
Actually people would have to be an idiot to settle for anything less from Trump.
When you think about it, if Trump genuinely trusted the average American, he would pay in advance.
OTOH, Americans will be able to see if they can trust Trump by whether or not he pays in advance no matter what.
Whoever's paying attention.
Or pay off student loan debt, it's all crooked, both sides.
"Both sides" is such an absurd claim these days.
It's like saying that a murderer and a jaywalker are both criminals, so they're basically the same.
Exactly. And by doing so, we slowly allow jaywalkers to become murderers but still viewed as "oh, it's just another person jaywalking again".
Lol I see you've never met a stallman type (ie your average hn disposition)
You’re right, the “both sides” claim really doesn’t work here.
Biden’s student loan forgiveness would have amounted to a gift of potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars to his most ardent supporters: young, college educated, poor people.
Trump’s proposal is a fraction of that, and all Americans would be eligible. If he’s trying to buy votes, he’s going to need to try a lot harder. This proposal is nothing like Biden’s vote buying scheme.
Funny that you wake up and rise only now. Where was you righteous indignation when Republicans promises tax cuts? Can you point me to your contemporary reaction to "no tax on tips"? What made you react only now?
Have you missed where Trump himself and many of the wealthiest people in the U.S. have had integer multiples of their wealth over just the past couple of years?
Oh yea, you're correct, who needs those? Let's feed the 0.01%.
Please beware the false moral equivalence. Both sides is a position which advantages the incumbency.
What is your intent, beyond cynicism?
Biden promised $2000 and paid out $1400, still owes us $600 each.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/critics-say-bidens-covid-rel...
Since becoming president again, Trump has promised: -$5000 stimulus checks via "DOGE dividend" -$2000 stimulus checks via "tariff dividend" -$1000+ checks via "savings" from expiring ACA subsidies -$5000 "dividend" if Rs win midterms No checks have been issued https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trump-magically-disappearing-st...
Catherine Rampell / The Bulwark via Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/crampell.bsky.social/post/3mv4z7az4...
The sooner this guy is impeached the better. That's better than letting his term just run out as it offers more of a warning to other fruitcakes out there: the system _eventually_ works.
That the problem is “this guy” is a misunderstanding.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rVXekzwkz10&pp=ygUeR2VvcmdlIGN...
Been impeached twice. What do you envision a third doing?
Conviction. Removal from office.
Third time’s the charm?
By all means let Senators defend and protect him. Maybe they don't care about their historical reputation
That isn't the way it works, there's no "three strikes" law for Presidents. If all of his extant corruption, clear senility and incompetence, throwing the global economy into chaos tumbling ass over end into an unnecessary war he can't even win and the Epstein stuff didn't get him removed from office, then this won't.
What we need is a form of legal redress more effective than a stern talking to, which is all impeachment amounts to.
There is a form of legal redress - following through in the senate with impeachment. Trump had sufficient allies in the senate when he was impeached so they dismissed it but if instead they had a 2/3 vote he could've be removed from office.
They gave Trump presidential immunity partly because the remedy for addressing any perceived lawlessness, they figured, is provided by the impeachment process. If impeachment is forclosed as even a possibility, the president is truly immune from any consequences.
This guy loves inflation.
It wouldn’t just monetize the national debt. By inflating away his own debts he might actually become a billionaire.
I try use my brain to logically approach it:
- 5k are promised in case of x to u.s. adults
Risk: too much adults to divide 5k equally amongst.
Confederate dollars.
18 U.S. Code § 597
Not that that matters when you make it up as you go.
Glad the law doesn’t count for the King, otherwise he would be in trouble.
The president’s Autopen though is going into overdrive signing all the pardons for every American who actually took the 5k.
Whoever makes or offers to make an expenditure to any person, either to vote or withhold his vote, or to vote for or against any candidate; and
Whoever solicits, accepts, or receives any such expenditure in consideration of his vote or the withholding of his vote—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if the violation was wilful, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
- https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/597
Everyone wants to know why groceries are so damn expensive, here's your answer. Along with fighting wars that aren't ours.
I really wish Libertarians would actually win.
Libertarians are just conservatives who like weed
well that, and:
And guns
And no foreign wars
And the right to marry whomever you want or be in a relationship with whomever you want.
And minimal State with demilitarized police.
And leaving you alone to do whatever.
Well, conservatives that were actually conservative would be a nice thing to have.
Libertarians should try at a small scale first so that others can see the genius of their ideas, and be more encouraged to vote for them. I hear New Hampshire has towns open to this idea.
It is a quite popular reverse bribe in India. All parties offer something like this, but to particular demographics.
However Trump's promises mean nothing nowadays.
"The only caveat I have is that the dividend that we're making must be spent in the United States of America."