"Shrier reserves her most scalding contempt, however, for so-called gentle parenting and its acolytes, the well-meaning moms and dads who have been snookered into surrendering their authority, never telling their children no. Instead of the crisp directness of “knock it off,” Shrier explains, gentle parenting promotes a feelings-centered approach, replacing punishment with “Why don’t we try taking a few breaths together now, Harper?”
The use of “Harper” is code here, of course, meant to invoke the type of namby-pamby elitist parent living in a coastal city who would name their kid that. Just in case we weren’t sure whom Shrier is referring to, she specifies: “If someone wanted to kill all human desire to reproduce—to achieve, at last, this thing environmentalists call “population control”—steering readers to the Slate Parenting Facebook group might be a promising way to start,” she writes. (I’ll admit that—reading this book with a review for Slate in mind—I did not see that one coming!)"
At a California conference that Shrier attends, the facilitator encourages participants to share emotions like anxiety and fear with students before math class. “I began to wonder whether this wasn’t some sort of ploy by the Chinese Communist Party to obliterate American mathematical competence,” Shrier writes.
Haha, there is absolutely fuckary afoot here. How is it that two unrelated institutions (psychiatry and education) both took a sharp turn toward iatrogenesis at the same time? The more they "help" the worse everything gets.
Therapists do not help these days, they indulge, and there's a shortage of them. "Gentle parenting" is a delegation of therapists' useless role (affirm everything) to parents. Pharmaceutical supplies were disrupted for no legitimate reason (remember the DEA/FDA "quotas" being the problem? They never changed them, and now things suddenly work ahead of an official inquiry). The media prints nothing but negativity. Mental health crisis indeed. It appears engineered.
It's not the Chinese. They need us to keep taking Adderall and keep learning math-- to develop new IP for them to steal.
This one's an insider threat with the heuristics of world-class Narcissism.
I had the same gag reflex when I saw the suicide questions bringing my 10yo to the doctor. Talk about leading the witness...
I get the issue, and we have a real problem in this country with depression. But the solution is to ask a sterile question on basically what looks like a standardized test to a kid? Eh, I think not.
Doctors are attracted to formulaic questions and questionnaires like moths to a flame, as it lets them pretend to be doing a skilled job without actually having to do any work.
Can such things ever be valuable? Sure! But when a patient is getting bombarded with several impersonal depression screeners in a week, and then getting nagged when they balk at completing the superfluous ones for the umpteenth time, it's very clear that any emphasis on value has long left the building.
That reminds me of one good thing I have experienced along these lines. Whenever I take my wife in to the doctor, there is a point where the registrar, nurse, really anyone, pulls me away for a random reason.
The only point of that interaction is to get my wife alone and ask her if she is in danger and if she needs help. I wish I had some data to prove my feeling that this line of questioning must help vulnerable women escape abusive situations.
The author's seems to be externalizing her own discomfort. She would do well to interrogate why the idea that therapy seems to be so distressing to her and do some personal growth rather than blaming her distress on something she ultimately can't change: other people.
[...] like placebos for parental frustration over their powerlessness than scientifically tested judgements: the child has “sensory processing issues,” [...] ADHD, or some other novel ailment.
I stopped reading and was relieved that the post has already been flagged.
ADHD is not "some other novel ailment". It is a recognized medical condition which causes people to be different. As a parent with a child on the spectrum and the other with ADHD I talked with many people, doctors, counselors and teachers. All of them tell me that my sons need help. One doctor told me that both qualify as persons with a disability. It's my opinion that my sons are not really disabled but different and that the world of today is not the same as thousands of years ago. I am happy that I and my wife are repeatedly told that our sons are happy and full of love.
But there's surely one thing I am extremely sure of: ADHD is not "some other novel ailment".
Agreed. When someone dismisses ADHD I think they should be innvited to babysit a kid with untreated ADHD for a week. Let's see how their "correct" parenting techniques work out for them.
Comments
This is a review that is critical of the book, but it seems like it's trying to be fair about the criticism: https://slate.com/human-interest/2024/02/abigail-shrier-bad-...
I found this part of the review pretty funny:
"Shrier reserves her most scalding contempt, however, for so-called gentle parenting and its acolytes, the well-meaning moms and dads who have been snookered into surrendering their authority, never telling their children no. Instead of the crisp directness of “knock it off,” Shrier explains, gentle parenting promotes a feelings-centered approach, replacing punishment with “Why don’t we try taking a few breaths together now, Harper?”
The use of “Harper” is code here, of course, meant to invoke the type of namby-pamby elitist parent living in a coastal city who would name their kid that. Just in case we weren’t sure whom Shrier is referring to, she specifies: “If someone wanted to kill all human desire to reproduce—to achieve, at last, this thing environmentalists call “population control”—steering readers to the Slate Parenting Facebook group might be a promising way to start,” she writes. (I’ll admit that—reading this book with a review for Slate in mind—I did not see that one coming!)"
Haha, there is absolutely fuckary afoot here. How is it that two unrelated institutions (psychiatry and education) both took a sharp turn toward iatrogenesis at the same time? The more they "help" the worse everything gets.
Therapists do not help these days, they indulge, and there's a shortage of them. "Gentle parenting" is a delegation of therapists' useless role (affirm everything) to parents. Pharmaceutical supplies were disrupted for no legitimate reason (remember the DEA/FDA "quotas" being the problem? They never changed them, and now things suddenly work ahead of an official inquiry). The media prints nothing but negativity. Mental health crisis indeed. It appears engineered.
It's not the Chinese. They need us to keep taking Adderall and keep learning math-- to develop new IP for them to steal.
This one's an insider threat with the heuristics of world-class Narcissism.
I had the same gag reflex when I saw the suicide questions bringing my 10yo to the doctor. Talk about leading the witness...
I get the issue, and we have a real problem in this country with depression. But the solution is to ask a sterile question on basically what looks like a standardized test to a kid? Eh, I think not.
Reminds of the "recovered memory" hoaxes on the 1990s.
"First, do no harm" is a pretty useful goal...
I'm 52 years old and every time I go to the doctor they ask me the "Do you feel safe at home?" "Have you been depressed?" etc, etc questions.
Doctors are attracted to formulaic questions and questionnaires like moths to a flame, as it lets them pretend to be doing a skilled job without actually having to do any work.
Can such things ever be valuable? Sure! But when a patient is getting bombarded with several impersonal depression screeners in a week, and then getting nagged when they balk at completing the superfluous ones for the umpteenth time, it's very clear that any emphasis on value has long left the building.
That reminds me of one good thing I have experienced along these lines. Whenever I take my wife in to the doctor, there is a point where the registrar, nurse, really anyone, pulls me away for a random reason.
The only point of that interaction is to get my wife alone and ask her if she is in danger and if she needs help. I wish I had some data to prove my feeling that this line of questioning must help vulnerable women escape abusive situations.
What a strange line of reasoning to pursue.
The author's seems to be externalizing her own discomfort. She would do well to interrogate why the idea that therapy seems to be so distressing to her and do some personal growth rather than blaming her distress on something she ultimately can't change: other people.
I stopped reading and was relieved that the post has already been flagged.
ADHD is not "some other novel ailment". It is a recognized medical condition which causes people to be different. As a parent with a child on the spectrum and the other with ADHD I talked with many people, doctors, counselors and teachers. All of them tell me that my sons need help. One doctor told me that both qualify as persons with a disability. It's my opinion that my sons are not really disabled but different and that the world of today is not the same as thousands of years ago. I am happy that I and my wife are repeatedly told that our sons are happy and full of love.
But there's surely one thing I am extremely sure of: ADHD is not "some other novel ailment".
Flagging, too.
Agreed. When someone dismisses ADHD I think they should be innvited to babysit a kid with untreated ADHD for a week. Let's see how their "correct" parenting techniques work out for them.
Is there anyone on HN to comment on this?
Different article but covers the same book: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39548622
Probably not. I'm pretty sure the post was buried. I can't find "Bad Therapy" on any page of https://news.ycombinator.com/news, but this post is near the top of https://hckrnews.com/.